Curse

Franco · Oct 18, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

lol bush is at it again, man didnt he stoped sniffing in university O-o

LifeInfusion · Oct 18, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

If you make real world money, it doesn't matter where it comes from, it gets taxes unless it is off the books and cannot be traced. An example of off the books is washing cars.

Online transactions through banks always get traced.

CtrlAltDel · Oct 19, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

They arent talking about taxing the virutal economies. Read the article people.

Its when you took that 1 million gold you earned last month and didnt really need and you sold it to a gold reseller for $50 or whatever. Well that $50 should get taxed...and right now it's not.

See the problem, and what they are after?

Giga Strike · Oct 19, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

ya, that seems reasonable.

Spellforge · Oct 19, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

There was a news article in the paper a while back that claimed one woman earned $35,000 from that game..she paid no tax on that.

As lifeInfusion pointed out - if you have $35,000 appear in your bank account , no matter the source (with very few exceptions) you have to declare it and pay taxes on it.
If not then you can get done for tax avoidance.

In the UK when you do a tax return you have to include ALL income you receive - regardless of it origins -

you got share dividends , we'll have some tax please
you got intrest on savings , pay some more tax please
you won 200 pounds in a beauty contest and are getting 2 pounds in intrest - we'll have some of that too
you made 500 selling MMO gold - yes please

It might not be traceable but if you don't declare it you are breaking the law (like washing cars and not paying tax on what you receive in payment)

Moa Bird Cultist · Oct 19, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I posted something on this in the riverside inn, because I didn't see this thread in here, but my thoughts are: Just imagine if this goes through- and is adopted by multiple countries. The potential for abuse by governments would be incredible. the article I linked to was by the BBC and is right here. It cites WoW as an example. This, as I said in the other thread may just be bad journalism on the beeb's part - the only MMOs they EVER refer to are WoW and Second Life, but since WoW has a very similar policy regarding in game gold to GW, I can'y help but be slightly concerned...

bamm bamm bamm · Oct 19, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

The way I see it, as long as the GW economy officially remains a closed system, this doesn't apply, the same for WoW. The economy in Second Life however acts as a real-world bi-directional transferable currency, and since currency itself is simply an abstraction, a strong argument could be made in favour of taxation.

Y.T. · Oct 19, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

its just sick.... if IRC will start taxing 1 game they'll spread to the rest...

Swinging Fists · Oct 19, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

This wouldn't effect us. There is no way in hell they could enforce the tax, this is aimed at Second Life mainly because there are people that are raking in thousands from this game. There was a news article in the paper a while back that claimed one woman earned $35,000 from that game..she paid no tax on that.

If people are raking in thousands in real world currency, then it is taxable. This is not what is being looked at. It's already established law.

About the woman earning $35,000 from a game and didn't pay tax. She was required by existing law to pay tax on that.

As has been stated, if you receive money, whether it is from washing a car, selling gold through EBay, or for babysitting, it is taxable. This is not the real point of the article.

The article is referring to taxing in-game wealth, under the view that it can be readily converted into real world wealth, and is, thus, real world wealth itself. I can see this becoming a possibility for a game like that mentioned in the article, if there is an inherent mechanic to convert the wealth to real world, but I still think the realization of income will only occur at the point of conversion. I believe as long as Guild Wars maintains it's prohibition on selling in game gold for real world money, this concept shouldn't affect GW. Keep in mind, all those people who sell GW gold on EBay (assuming they are U.S. citizens), they are required to pay tax on that, regardless of the fact that the EULA prohibits it.

Winterclaw · Dec 06, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Well not yet, but they might want to have a look at dralmart in the future.

Sad part is, I could actually see the government doing something like that.

I pwnd U · Dec 06, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

If they do that i will quit online gaming for good.

Mercury Angel · Dec 06, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

I'm sure they've considered it;
They get committees to look into quite a bit in terms of ridiculous topics, but it doesn't mean they really plan on passing any laws regarding them.

However, even if it were the case that such an idea were implemented, it's not something normal players would need to concern themselves with. Such a decision would take much longer than simply enacting a new law; Granting virtual goods taxable value would impact EULA validity significantly, I think, considering that they all state that they're owned by the company itself.

I personally feel that the costs for IRS auditing of transactions involving virtual goods would amount to greatly more than the amount of money the government would actually see. <_<

Sophitia Leafblade · Dec 06, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Lol give it time (after a few more years of deforrestation and global warming) and im sure they will try to tax us for oxygen. Is there anything safe from tax?

LightningHell · Dec 06, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Lol give it time (after a few more years of deforrestation and global warming) and im sure they will try to tax us for oxygen. Is there anything safe from tax?

Red tape.

Oh, maybe not.

unienaule · Dec 07, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

The obvious strategy would be to create so many online transactions of the lowest possible amount that it overloads the government's processing capabilites. DOS attacking, but in a way that can't be stopped because it's what they're trying to do in the first place.

Malice Black · Dec 07, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

This has come up once before. In my opinion this is a fair tax..before you choke I'll explain. There is a woman that plays "Second Life" and she earns real money from the game..something like 30k US dollars a year selling in game items for real world cash.

Currently that is 30k a year no tax...fair? hell no.

This "tax" will never hit people like us it is primarily aimed at those who do make serious cash from games.

Winterclaw · Dec 07, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

They said the same thing about the income tax too; it was only going to be paid by the rich. However the government could just as easily come in and charge a nickel or a dime for every drop and make it work like a sales tax.

Divinitys Creature · Dec 08, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

You already have to pay tax when you earn money from any source so the law already covers money made by gaming. What is retarded is trying to tax you for assets in the game before you sell them whether you sell them or not. People should then be able to pay with game gold or offset their losses in game against their real life business. Or to pay their real world taxes with ecto.

Malice Black · Dec 08, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Ok people are getting the wrong end of this I feel. This tax would not effect GW/WoW players ect because you cannot make real cash from this game (legally). This is only aimed at games where you can earn real money from selling in-game items. For example "Second Life", in this game in-game items like houses/businesses even clothes for peoples avatars are bought with real life cash. There was report a while back that stated people made a decent living from their in-games businesses. As a businessman I feel cheated by the fact I pay a shit load of tax per year (1mill+) and these people pay nothing.

Superdarth · Dec 11, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

I didnt read all the rplies but hell.

Its here to eh?I herd a discussion on the DDO forums to.

And it is possible that there going to tax us because of the PROBABILITY that where going to sell plat, look at the link, the first sentence:

NEW YORK--If you are a hardcore player of virtual worlds like World of Warcraft, Second Life, or EverQuest II, IRS form 1099 may soon take on a new meaning for you.

WoW is much diffrent then Second Life,if they want to tax WoW then it means they want to tax because we *might* sell gold for real money, meaning Guild Wars isnt a far stretch anymore either.

Idiots...realy...to even consider it!